SP: Or will not come - there are some scenarios. I have no doubt that in ten years in Russia Kabakov will demand much more than today. But it will be seen and read - this is a big question. I watched telecast in Kabakov exhibition in the garage - it was something. Read the interiors of the "garage", they say that all this girl did Roman Abramovich, a close-up in the frame appears this girl. And then - Kabakov ... as extras because they tell a couple of minutes their sense of creativity is impossible. Oh yes, and as luck would have taken close-up, ask the stupid question Emilia (Emilia Kabakov, wife and co-author I. Kabakov. - AI .), Which, in response, said something unintelligible, and this falls in the program.

AI: This is a common mistake organizers: reporters need to properly guide - explaining what things are more important.

SP: As in all areas in the field of contemporary art need mediators. Otherwise, the audience for all its representatives are transformed into a set of Frick (Frick (from English. Freak - freak of nature) - in this case refers to the calling behavior of people showing off their eccentricities, defamatory art strategy for their senseless Engendering shock and revulsion. - AI .). We like to savor the scenes as a dunce on the ocean burned piano or any other artist in the Indian village wrote the language of painting - and this insanity is presented as contemporary art. But if would be cool to transfer Bulatova or Vasilyev often (and we do not have one), so the result would have been different. The actual result, I have in mind.

AI: In my opinion, and critics themselves are often added to the bricks in the wall of misunderstanding that divides contemporary art and the educated public. "Eyeball discord" Victor Tupitsyna (interview with Ilya Kabakov) - totally unreadable thing.

SP: I'll have to read Tupitsyna since left his monograph on Russian art in the English language - "museological unconscious. From the sixties to the present day. This is in itself an event. Tellingly, the whole series of visual pictures made of pictures - not quality reproductions, but simply interiors exhibitions ... and pictures out there hanging. It turns out that all artists are important to the author as extras in his play, a strange intellectual performance. Maybe for an American university audience and is a good edition (there is such a version, that the history of art writing American university leaders, who sit and dumb lyrics for "Tashena", "Rizzoli", and other top publishers of the world), but not for us. The language itself, which the story is told, already nepodemen and nepotreben for our readers. I will not mention names, but from one of our most respected artists have heard that there is a good Russian language, there is bad, but there tupitsynsky.

AI: Some of the artists like it when their creative writing complex language - creativity appears more profound, there is an array of meanings. Actual art does not an exception.

SP: I do not like the word "relevant" in the context which has put into circulation Catherine Tar in his book ( "Russian art of XX century". -- AI .). In fact, the term "actual art" quite old - in 1960 he used Yankilevsky. But then the context was completely different. When Khrushchev artists shied away from the direct influence of the head of reality in their closed world, had never come face with the audience and especially the first spectator, when the first visitors to the public said that he was a Stalinist art, and they should all go to Kolyma - it was factor which made Yankylevsky talk about the limit to date and relevant perceptions and utilize their belongings. For him it was a terrible flesh reality. Today, these meanings can not be read. Fortunately Yankylevsky very difficult glamurizirovat as an artist.

AI: If not the word "relevant", how to allocate the last 15 years? Because and sixties, and the generation of 30-year - all this formally contemporary art.

SP: For the artists who are at an advanced age (for example, Gerhard Richter), the West is a term established contemporary - well-established contemporary art. In the Russian language, I entered the blueprints for the sixties, it is a slogan of my gallery - "the classic modern art." For me the sixties - a classic Russian art.

AI: For most modern art is still a good term postart »...

SP: Though potty naming. The terminology is secondary to the process. People come through the labels and try to understand something, it is important you know what direction this or that work is ... I say do not match the thing with some direction, do not suffer, so it's easier to accept. How much misery was the Roginskii , who said that not pop art is not pop art . He called his style of documentary character, but the term is not stuck. In the end, anyway, his art is seen under the brand name "Pop Art" and in any article on Roginsky read that he was "the father of Russian pop-art". And still this damn thing does not work - in a global sense, because the market for Roginsky for other reasons, but still worth it, no dynamics. People this explanation - pop art - nothing has not helped to accept his work properly.

AI: is not enough time has passed, still roll with the terms of the order.

SP: I'm writing a book on the history of Russian contemporary art, it will be released in April next year, and I assure you there will be all arranged in its place. All will be on their shelves: expressionism in his place, and pop art on his own, but without the excesses. Must finally call a spade a spade, and a moment comes. Ahead of 2010 - among other things, ten years of vacillation and a rustle in the market in the new century all tore the blanket over himself, someone who would chip. And now is the calm, everything should be clarified. I am confident that 2010 will be the year installations akademizatsii contemporary art, which should go to his advantage.

AI: Akademizatsiya in the sense of movement toward greater respectability? And whether it is modern art?

SP: The strategy Markin applied to his museum - with luzganem seeds, with skateboarding, books, coffee, grass golf course, and it all lumped together and is accompanied by texts, without signatures, and the catalog is written that "if someone believes that he could draw a square of Malevich's better, can go boldly and x ... chit" - the strategy itself is not exactly justified. And it's very significant that the museum of the plan was defeated. In fact, all the recipes are already known.

AI: I honestly thought that the strategy will work Markina.

SP: I, too, at first thought that work. Because we will be full of archaic institutions. I did five years at the Tretyakov Gallery, and I know that the Tretyakov not acted in a global sense, because they could not find a contact with the public. A Markin seemingly immediately opened the viewer, but it did not work. And even many artists and collectors have offended him: as well, the man has collected one of the best collections and such a shame it has demonstrated piled all the feeling well ...

AI: But you will agree, a smart and stylish exhibition Krasnopevtsev many transgressions withdraws ...

SP: It is only against the background of the fact that we had a few good show Krasnopevtsev in recent years. No worse was an exhibition of gouaches Krasnopevtsev pursued gallery "Romanov, and, incidentally, Markin in his blog called the best show of the year. And if you remember the exhibition at the Tretyakov Gallery Krasnopevtsev five years ago in the Engineering building, what can there be a comparison? Igor's in the museum, he hung constricted, crowded. For such an exhibition had to remove the entire museum, all properly illuminate.

AI: But the quality of the work was super!

SP: For thanks Krasnopevtsev, not Markina.

ÀI: Another man collectors simply would not give work to the exhibition.

SP: Actually, we did not have at that time of alternatives to private museums.

AI: I still have sweet memories of that show.

SP: Yes, of course. I will not argue.

about those who remain in the history of art

AI: Go back to the course: who of contemporary artists, the last 15 years remain in the history of art?

SP: Over the past 15 years: , Vinogradov Dubossarskii (especially early). Any doubts? Sure. At that time they made a very correct trend. If Vinogradov and Dubossarsky was not, they would have to invent.

AI: But now Vinogradov and Dubossarskii strongly surrendered.

SP: I agree, but there are also artists, who remain in the history only through his early things. Not necessarily remain in the history of all periods of his work - it is just not many survive. Take Jasper Johns: everyone remembers the early target, but not the later works of 1980, which also is not bad. Although this is not the best example - Jasper Johns all the same great artist.

AI: Well, go on, who else will?

C. P.: Let's look at the artists art4.ru (leafing through directory) - Zvezdochetov earlier, is likely to remain, Novikov , no doubt, will remain, Batynkov - where he was going to go away , Koshlyakov - a great artist, Ponomarev, Anatoly Osmolovsky - with and shares, and diametrically opposed to" bread ". His "Bread" I think one of the most significant metaphors in the Russian art of the 2000's. He managed to create a powerful image, to which all the audience bowed their heads: and colleagues, and professionals, and consumers, and connoisseurs from around the world. Let some of the largest facilitators grumble that all this is wrong. I think its great theorist, and, perhaps, his theory of art history will remember him not less than its practice. But the "bread" just belong to the category of things that can do without explanation. For me they are visual, plastic, and many artists of the older generation perceive plastic solutions Osmolovsky unconditionally. He feels very delicately created thing. Now, when you watch his performances, you think: a barricade to Nikita - The same sculpture as the artist on the shoulder of Mayakovsky - it is also a sculpture, so Erwin Wurm in combination with radical Moscow Actionism. To name more clearly Olga Chernysheva and Vitaly Pushnitsky. Not because he's mine, but because they still do not realize how important he is an artist - in St. Petersburg, it is number one for ten years. "Train" Chernysheva, perhaps, the most powerful video in Russian art. Copies are in the Tate and MoMA - who else do you find this? Do not remember her? Recount is elementary: it comes with the camera in train against the motion and relieves people, going from wagon to wagon, while the train does not stop there. And all this goes to the classical music, in the dim grainy monochrome - a very truthful Russian reality. Yes, Pasha Pepperstein here again, without any Pasha - anywhere.

AI: What is the test for you? Why did you select these people?

SP: They believed and broadcast the most important meanings of their own country so that it can bring to everyone in the world. Here you are at it wilt shew it will be clear that this Russian artist, not because there rattling symbols, the hammer and sickle. Osmolovskii, Pepperstein - they absorb this energy and transform it into a metaphor. This is an exact rendering of the earth, the people through art, on some visceral sensation. If you put them all together as one exhibition (conditionally Russia! Contemporary) - it will be a strong way, believe me, that is not ashamed to show anywhere in the world.

AI: How do you work with young artists? Considering a portfolio? Gelman in his blog, told me that before about 2000 gallery has watched portfolio in the year.

SP: Portfolio of us every day they send over the Internet in large numbers. We almost did not has watched them. 99 percent bullshit. Decent portfolio yield only for some contacts, or when the curators of people to see me lead. Gelman in this respect is much more dynamic figure than I, he has more sites and want to b Most speakers. It does not work with an artist like me, does not work with legacy, does not work with the backgrounds of the artist over 20-30 years. He works with the present moment, and he needs more young blood. I'm very conservative in this respect, man. I want to see the artist at once, in embryo, that this guy I can work out about 30 years. And there are very few. And the young me very little. My conservatism is dictated by the fact that there are no such figures, in which I could be sure in advance. A momentary, selling-selling , I was never attracted to.

AI: We have identified a number of names established artists, and is no longer very young. And who among the youth has the potential to go down in history?

SP: It is now possible to speak of a generation 25-year-olds who, with a high degree of certainty, will remain in history. I can name six names. Vladimir Logutov, Diana Machulina, Ivan Ivy, Sergey Ogurtsov, Jeanne Kadyrov, Irina Korina - they convince me 100 percent.

AI: And as you Blokhin and Kuznetsov project Recycle?

SP: It is not clear what they will do after the stop burning plastic. At a reception not long endure. But the guys are very resourceful. Kavarga, of course, Kavarga still young. Tavasieva is not love. For me, it just exhausts feykovoy strategy (feykovaya strategy (from the English. Fake - fake) - dead-line, a fiction. - AI .), He does not know what he would do outside the toy world . This will not last long.

AI: I really liked his show Milky Way - recognizable, although there was less plush.

SP: Weak exhibition. In my feeling, it's all the same, only with special effects. And the same with special effects like me even less than without the special effects.

AI: I can not understand that bother? Made professional.

SP: If this was unprofessional and made ... To me, that no culture, no visual or intellectual. Now any artist from the young, very new guys, the same van Hoof, who has made only one small exhibition, ten times stronger than anything that made Tavasievym for all these years. Logutov one of the smallest gesture proves a lot. He feels that it dictates the time. A Tavasiev feel what you want the viewer. This originally feykovaya strategy.

AI: If you take your logic, then, to please the audience, Tavasievu it would be easier to do things the commercial format, the better to hang on the wall.

SP: is now in fashion trend, it is better to sell something that is not immediately possible to hang on the wall. Or hang with some refinements. Tavasiev's not only with "Aidan" works, but also with the French owners of galleries, but they have much more sophisticated taste, they need not just toys in the form of objects or on canvas.

AI: On the western auctions of contemporary art is a lot of plush and fur, especially at the Phillips.

SP: In the west in general nonsense every lot, but we try to talk about the best things.

AI: Russian and Russian Hirst's Basques has not appeared?

SP: Out of the audacity.

AI: insolence - the question of management, and I'm the talent.

SP: No, the audacity - it's part of Hirst's talent: the man immediately turned aggressive activities in relation to the entire art world, as a component of his art.

AI: Osmolovskii because too aggressive in their statements to ...

SP: What is he now, on the contrary, has become the classical, and he quickly moved away from this aggression. In Russia, the aggressiveness will not last long, you very quickly become respectable. Clown not stay long. A good example of a clown, which completely disappeared from the scene - is Alexander Brener . Those who Kulik led on a leash. How could I not convinced of its seriousness - I do not believe it. Kulik left, and Brenner left. Kulik also become respectable.

On Kulik and tastes of new collectors

AI: With Kulik, there is no hundred percent recognition in the works for a person unprepared for it hard. By the way, despite the status of classics, it also almost no auctions: 8 works in history.

SP: What Kulik hardly appears at auction, that it is no secondary market - the result of the fact that none of the owners of his work not want to sell them. A primary market for a very good dynamic. The primary market you will not find any prints from the series "Russian" - they all sold out long ago. However, none of them did not appear on the secondary market. The fact that the girl in the swamp "went to the auction - that's great, but this is rarely the case. In general, works are in the hands of those collectors who do not plan to part with them. Not from the investment considerations, but because it is a serious collectors. If you take his most famous print, "Girl with watermelon, then it at least a new edition print: it is all in the collections, and almost the entire edition was immediately sold.

eclecticism Kulik very easy to explain. There is a type of artist who is never equal to himself, he proteichen, all the time. This kind of market strategy for the contemporary artist. But in his case it is still the sense of what it reflects the key European trends, what's in the air in Europe, passing this information through the Russian mentality. Dead monkeys - is in the direction of Bettina Rheims. Wax figures - in the direction of Maurizio Castellana. Performances - in the direction of Vienna Actionism. In Europe, it is recognizable, but at the same time - a little differently.

AI: A European Kulik, where he lives now?

SP: in Moscow, in the next house on the street Kazakova.

AI: As it in the European porridge cooked? He reads a lot?

SP: No, just a lot feels. He interior artist - feel where to go, rather than calculates. The call of the soul. Therefore, it may make mistakes, avoid slowing down for a few years. He is well versed in international art, a lot of looks. After all, look - this is important. Artists, in the end, vizualisty. This we read or watch the outcome of auctions. And Oleg is not so interested. But he sees a lot.

AI: We do not agree on what does happen with more recent artists binding Dubossarskii and Vinogradov?

SP: Dubossarskii and Vinogradov valuable early stuff. And what will now be at Bonhams, for example, is, from my point of view, the result of bland, commercialized policies of recent years. And the prices are therefore fell very seriously. And thank God, that appeared a generation of collectors, for whom they are not absolute authority. Now there is no such: I started collecting, I first need Dubossarskii and Vinogradov . On the contrary, they say: no, no, I'll deal , if it does not coincide with the plastic feel of the collection.

AI: Many changes in the priorities of collectors?

SP: It seems to me that the theme of collecting contemporary art, we are still very crude. Almost all the collections built with the same brush. This is something just wrong. The chip collector - the fact that every time you create new, why not this.

AI: There is the question of status that is not only fun, but price tags in the minds of the audience appeared. And if you hang the work of young artists, then entered the office just do not understand, this is cool or not cool.

SP: Yes, but here if there are great things, then we can estimate the courage and the urgency of the collector. For example, one comes to the house, there hangs a quiet art of the 1930's, perfectly matched things - and you can say about the taste of this man a lot of compliments. Or a man hanging classic German expressionism, let the second or third series - it just says an exclusive taste of the collector. But when you watch a collection of a man who hangs Nemukhin , and next Vinogradov-Dubossarskii, the price tags on you can just say something, but the taste is definitely, and by no means complimentary. And if next to the "price tags" (conditional, next to the rubles and Steinberg ) will hang a little Ernst Wilhelm Ney, or Franz West, or print Gerhard Richter - respect for a man like no limits. This demonstrates the infinite breadth of his views, which can afford a collector of World responsiveness, and not just a collector of Russian art on the patterns. What I can not stand, it is collecting on the patterns. Collecting, in addition to investments, it is still much room for imagination, and the investment component you always prompt. If you want only the investment, we can assemble a collection of net investment, no question, but I, for example, over the years none of the collector has not happened.

AI: You are talking about plastic and courage, but a large part of life is arranged in Pontus. People are looking at things, published in fashion magazines. Thought so: I see the rich interior Printer Mamysheva - this pontovo, another on the wall Dubossarskii - Cool .

C. P.: It is not collectors. This is a manifestation of lack of independence, weakness.

On Belyaeva-Gintovt and premium Kandinsky

AI: This point also needs to survive. Tell us about the history of the award "Kandinsky-2008» Alexey Belyaev-Gintovt . After a mikroskandal with Andrew Molodkin at the Venice Biennale. This is the Eurasian and other notable tectonic processes in the society ... In the art this issue seriously? Will Belyaev-Gintovt in history?

SP: In the history of Russian art, they just stay. When I was at the previous award Kandinsky, then, like it or not Belyaev, it was immediately clear that the "Brothers and Sisters" - this is an outstanding picture, without any conversation. And if you know what is depicted and what sends, then for a man indifferent to his stories is something that really touched. It does not want to discuss, will the Lesch in the history of art or not, but at that moment it was clear that he was in fair to give a prize. I talked about this since the opening, but did not believe him in these circumstances could give a prize. Fortunately, the objectivity of the jury was such that he received a prize.

AI: But then someone from the jury played back ...

C. P.: Only one said he zamorochili head. But they are professionals! .. Even if you did not know the background, they are judged by the visual component. And she had the most important thing. And that is mounted on Lyesha Eurasian contexts ... In every man can be hung ugly stories of his past. This is generally known strategy: when you need something, gets the file from the shelf and starts subtraction abominations. If judged on the image, then right that gave the award - he deserves it more than anyone else. I spoke recently with Valerie Hillings, she thinks their opinion is absolutely justified and very pleased that Alex has received this award. This is the opinion of the incorruptible American big curator. At that time Belyaev-Gintovt compete with the old project Boris Orlov and a very weak draft Dmitry Gutova . If it was a strong draft Gutova (as a lattice of Rembrandt this year), the prize definitely had to give him. But it is not awarded for past achievements, but for the strength of the utterance. And it was very powerful and accurate it was Alexei.

AI: And what about Andrew Molodkina say?

SP: The fact that they did together with Belyaev, - it was spectacular speech. « Novonovosibirsk », who saw live - it's cool, whatever you say. What Molodkin doing now, it is claimed, but it seems too calculated. A Lesch - crazy, he believes in what he does, he is a sincere patriot, despite the negative connotations that this word want to attach.

AI: you are friends with Belyayev-Gintovt?

SP: I can not say that I have friends among the artists, but I am personally very warmly disposed toward Alexis - it's true. In my office hangs a small gift of work. Images of Red Square, which hammered the pegs and beneath a huge puddle. But since the Red Square mausoleum is already standing, it is clear that this is not appealing to the XVII century. Quite a terrible thing. It says much about the audience as it is now perceived history. You call me today at least one historical artist? Do not battle-or "socialist realists-grekovtsa, writing in order, but simply an artist who is elementary They reflect on their own history? In addition to Alexis? And he is not afraid of this hydra to face - this is for him can be thankful. Notice how in the situation of this persecution Lesch worthy behaves like a nonconformist in 1960. In his attempt hung quotations, well, all this nonsense ...

AI: Yes, there was some mysterious quote, which quickly disappeared and did not like it, but managed to cause a violent reaction.

SP: What Osmolovskii uttered in response? I am with him and Belyaev-Gintovt am in equal friendly relations. So what, Lesch would beat me to face because I work with Osmolovsky? Or Osmolovskii be beat for the fact that I keep working Belyaeva in office? Incidentally, in the office I work and hang Osmolovsky. It is normal that in the Russian art is a contradiction, well known phrase that the museum will reconcile them all. The fact that it does not violate ethical standards.

AI: Which one is cooler: Molodkin or Belyaev-Gintovt?

SP: Both are good, but I prefer Belyaev.

AI: The last "Art-Moscow" for his work asked for 20 thousand euro. He works fast?

SP: I remember that I asked for 25 thousand euro. Doing these things is not easy. Can not say that he baked them as pies. In the early 2000's he made things more than they are now working with the "Triumph". No installation to napech a certain amount of work. While vyrezhesh all these stencils, yet do everything it handles (this is all manual production!), Will be a lot of time.

situation in contemporary Russian photography

AI: How are things in contemporary Russian photography? Chernysheva? Mukhin? Clavijo-Telepnev?

SP: Generation one, but different intellectual environment. Telepnev after all of the advertising business structure. He is a little "Nikas Safronov" for the photographic sector, although it is certainly much better than Nikas, for contemporary art. For photos, is characterized by large dynamics than for the fine arts. Canvas-oil must be stored somewhere, and photos - click on the button and draw ready. But the competition is much greater. Therefore, when the scope of the photos released somebody, then it really should be an important and significant. Market of Russian photography quite young - three galleries, which run for two years. The young and popular names in general can not be called: Anya Titova, Alexander Gronsky, who can be named among the most correct figures in the new picture. Duryagin ? No, Oleg Dou - this is pure art, using the technique of printing, I would not have ascribed this to photography in general. Mukhin - yes. It is believed that fashion was Mukhina, and the fact that Selina has ceased to work with him - is an indication that he fell out of clips. Do not agree. In any case, he argues that in its segment it has no equal. Slyusarev, Saveliev, Ignatiev, Bakharev - it is very important that these names, classics began to appear on the market. It is important that there were rules of the game.

AI: How do you evaluate the topic of investment in a promising picture?

SP: Theme promising, but its promise is ten times lower than the painting. Because when you pay $ 2000 a vintage print, yield, when this work will rise in the price of two times is 2000 dollars. And if the painting grows for twenty to forty, then the profitability of investments in the now $ 20 000. Investment attractiveness of proportion.

Photography has a much wider audience of visitors - is worth mentioning that the exhibition at the photos and people crowded the shaft. But, on the other hand, the judges of photos is much less. Explanation is. Painting - it adopted the presentation of art. And in order to perceive the photograph as art, you need to know everything, and it, too. Different details, know printing techniques, the specifics of production runs. All this can not slow the market. The only artist who grew up photos of the great art in recent years - is Vladimir Kupriyanov . From scratch, he went to Sotheby's - and becomes the most expensive photographer in Russian history. His record at Sotheby's in March last year - 58 thousand pounds of pure (without premium auction. - AI .), A $ 100 thousand for photographic work "is not rejected me from your face." When comparing by value, it's "Portrait of Lev Rubinstein's" Faibisovich, only for the domestic picture. Home Russian conceptual photography history. Implicitly a great thing. You see, fotorynok small, cramped, but correct.

Investing in modern works up to 5 thousand euro

AI: hundreds of thousands - serious money for the contemporary Russian art, let's go back to the more affordable segment.

SP: Igor Markin some time ago, said in an interview that collecting contemporary Russian art can afford only millionaires. This is absolute nonsense. The fact of the kicks and contemporary Russian art, that now he can not afford not millionaires, but by anyone. I have some time ago came across a box of chocolates for the exclusive production, which cost $ 400 - not candy, but only a box, which a priori emissions. This is the kind of money for which you can buy some lottery job, print contemporary artist. Not compare the difference: the plastic into the garbage or a piece of eternity that you buy forever. But the people persistently eats sweets.

AI: Let's talk about the price range up to 5 thousand euro - the range of conditional access to media in contemporary art. In the work of artists to draw any attention? Sam and I'll start: for 3,5-4 thousand euros you can buy a good thing Konstantin Batynkov, good job Rostand Tavasieva can buy for 2,5 thousand in terms of the euro.

SP: I will continue for 2,5 thousand can buy a luxurious image Maiofis , which is very large and still unappreciated artist. His American museums to buy, we think. The smallest limited edition cards can be purchased for 1 000 euros, runs normal - 12-15 pieces. By Maiofis in Russia we have the main (gallery pop /off /art. - AI .).

AI: A draw control?

SP: Circulation should control in the first place the artist himself. A gallery owner has to control the moral condition of the artist. In this regard, I am at Grisha can rely on one hundred percent, I know to find any of his things.

AI: It was said that you are on the main Vagrichu Bahchanyanu , now on Gregory Maiofis, but by whom is the principal?

SP: It is easier to say to whom the main thing: to Bulatov, at Chelushkinu is not the main, on Yankilevsky. By Andrey Grositsky - the main course, more than that - exclusive. But it's expensive authors. Things Chelushkina, which are now shown on the "Kandinsky", - from 20 to 40 thousand euros. The work to which you see - such remaining 2 or 3 pieces on the market, and cost of 12-15 thousand euros, despite the fact that it is formally schedule.

AI: We continue to list "up to five thousand euros." What other work could allow for that kind of money?

SP: A good schedule nonconformists, and it is even decent. Generally we do not have collectors graphics. Or limited edition items. For example, plates Yankylevsky - brilliant stuff for investment and for the interior. 1,5-2 They cost thousands of euros per trick. If you take a set of copies, then about 10 thousand for 5 pieces. I stand small statues of Alexander Ney - they can be purchased from 5 thousand dollars. The sculpture is generally underestimated. Sculptures Vladimir Anselm of coal sold within 5 thousand euros. It sold well, I sold the whole exhibition. Small objects Markovnikov , small works on paper Krasulina - also in this price segment.

AI: We famously set the bar, but generally a five euros - is 7,5 thousand dollars. And for 10 thousand dollars can be, for example, have to buy even later, but the big thing Nemukhin.

SP: Well, it is possible and cheaper. The most important thing - the things young artists can buy for the money, it's time to invest. If you configured a large painting, then go, buy a young artist and hung in the interior. He was always controversial, let the artist do not "shoot", but it is, by definition, low money - the notorious box of chocolates. Of the young can work almost every purchase within the next 5 thousand euro, though not the main thing. In fact they are young, that cost is not expensive.

AI: is expensive or not expensive - a relative issue. In an interview Haim Sokol said that in his opinion, his stuff should cost ten.

SP: But actually cost less. During the day you can find suggestions for Falcon just within the 5 thousand euros. Another thing is that this program will not work. And his small chamber works are generally 1,5-2 thousand euros. They are unique, not limited edition, are in themselves all the qualities of his work.

AI: Actually, what is the price of entrance ticket to the market of contemporary art? So, not to the gallery, and in the stalls.

SP: In general, "tens of thousands of euros" - a major segment of contemporary art. If you want to work properly on this site, with good names with good investment potential, especially not ashamed of what you will have nothing to show other people, then you need to operate in a segment of 10-100 thousand euros. In this segment, you can buy all the first names, even Bulatov - the old, the 1960's, a good painting is extremely rare, but can vytsepit on the secondary market. And Kabakov, too, in the same limits - another thing that this will be a replicable object, and a unique painting purchase possible. But the two most senior example. And everything else - is easy.

AI: prices - an important question that many are interested. Let's run on the last name in the mode blitz?

SP: AES + F - it all depends on the circulation and quality, the range of 10-100 thousand euros. Zvezdochetov - about 25 thousand euros. Koshlyakov - 25-45 thousand euros, but there are also more expensive. Novikov - early material is almost no market.

AI: And there are signals that the counterfeiting situation has worsened.

SP: How many counterfeit? That is fake these things are very difficult to say. Who is an authorized expert Novikov? So-called "Committee Novikova" has not yet been met. Sign an opinion on each individual who in had. Rumor that the things that were on MacDougall's a year ago, were forged. This year, they again took to the MacDougall's, and, in my opinion, they are genuine. They are authorized Alexander Borovsky - the largest specialist Novikov, with whom I have personally spoken on this subject, because I wanted to ascertain their provenance. And he called the name of a close friend of Novikov, who they were in the past few decades. Who, I ask, to believe? Rumors that go on the market, or leading authority?

AI: And here is my favorite Vladimir Shinkarev ? Also the good work - under 50 thousand dollars.

SP: A good example of money invested wisely. I sold only one work from his series "Chapayev when our gallery just beginning to work. Now its shoppers is the owner of the treasure: buy a few thousand dollars, now worth several tens of thousands of dollars. Shinkarev, of course, the best St. Petersburg distinguished painter. Generally, this cultural worker, founder of Mitkov ", creator of the modern mythology of St. Petersburg, a great writer. The same situation as with Prigov . He is a great figure of Russian literature, as well as an artist he was completely underestimated. And will be judged more years.

AI: Because decent "wrapper" no.

SP: Yes. Context enough, but "wrapping" is not enough. Next on your list: Vrubel - a very dubious character for the market, a very far-fetched and, in my opinion, all this is possible only through the current political situation. Salakhova , certainly falls into the first row, and very interesting what happens with the previous things that come to the secondary market. They always sold.

AI: I am very sympathetic of its "Aidan Gallery" - there are all pretty comfortable and is available for the money.

SP: Yes, it is generally normal. Is that the "Triumph" is positioned, they have all expensive - so this is their strategy, which they are taxiing. But generally they market this healthy korezhat. Young artists, which they sold for good money, should not cost so much.

AI: You mean Gaponova? Posh skull.

SP: Yes, things are good, but they should not cost so much. They are offered in twenty - it's expensive, too early. Shutov - a worthy unappreciated artist, although he first appeared at foreign auctions. I think that Mironenko and Gundlah - one of those figures whose golden time not just left far behind, they do not justify his place of artists from for 20-year hiatus. Now, when everything was back in fashion and everything is sold, you can again resume market activity. But I think it is completely far-fetched. At that early Mironenko important things.

AI: This tells you the art ...

SP: Early AI: Anatoly Osmolovsky much work?

AI: About Sergei Shekhovtsova what do you think? The famous artist, participating in the Venice Biennale, and auctions do not.

SP: Foam sculpture - a very complicated format for the auction. Even the primary market is poorly developed, not to mention the secondary. Who will sell the foam thing, five years after it was made? This is fraught with elementary poor preservation. This is a very dubious position.

On the art critic and a bit of Erofeeva

AI : Today is the mass of the public claims to art historians: the role of mixed up and it is unclear who is in front of you - an independent specialist, curator and promoter? A mist in the meantime more and more. There will be people who have something to help understand?

SP: The figure of an art for our market is at least some compensatory and curative interventions. Should be a few such people. Incidentally, Selina also an art historian by training, Larisa Greenberg - too. This allows the correct accents and priorities. If art is not the authority, then who? Media? Media - thoroughly corrupt structure. Any media structure tainted. How can you be confident in the market, which is completely not objective?

AI: I do not know of such an art to which the market fully believes.

SP: And when all the critics say, then why not listen.

AI: Give me a break! Many critics said that the Belyaev-Gintovt - rubbish. What follows? Findings of these - the political.

SP: Yes, she should not, but it is a rare exception. And by the way, if you look at criticism of the 1990's, those same critics were talking about Belyaeva, as it is great. Our pros very short historical memory.

AI: Tell me more, that the book you're writing?

SP: I am writing the history of modern art on the basis of one of the largest collections, which allows you to talk about art in general. From the collection - to history. If we draw an analogy, then the collection of Pinot can write the history of Western contemporary art. Or Saatchi collection. Then about the same situation, but in relation to Russia.

AI: And whose collection - a mystery?

SP: Yes, no longer. This is a collection of Victor Bondarenko, in late April will be a book. And then I rewrote it about the history of art without an appeal to the collection. This is not a directory, and a 200-page text, which is a collection of illustrative side. This is a very important difference between the format, because catalogs were already so much that they fit the stove to heat. It is argued that these directories are collections only reduce the overall level, because there enter random characters, and general collection - it is often the result of random selection. A collection Bondarenko - the only one on which to conduct such an experiment. That's based on the collection Markina, which is full of masterpieces, it is impossible.

AI: What were you previously involved in the Tretyakov Gallery?

SP: to the Tretyakov Gallery, I was deputy director of the scientific-methodical department. Specifically, I was engaged in promoting the art of XX century, on the Crimean Val. I worked in the Tretyakov Gallery for five years and conducted parallel journalistic, art history and curator activity. The art of education. Gallery was founded immediately after the Tretyakov - and now just five years old. Prior to the Tretyakov Gallery? I am 33 years - so that before he attended graduate school.

AI: Five years ago, then caught Erofeeva?

SP: Yes, he came with me. From the outset it was clear that the way he behaves, not allow him to hold out for long in the museum's staff. Given that it turn out and there has not been attempted, it is not opposed, but rather contributed to it. This antimuzeyny people. I say this not in a bad sense, but simply as a given. It can be very charismatic curator, he is a genius provocateur Russian modern art. I would rather him not awarded the position of academic art historian, and global provocateur Russian modern art. How Backstein - perpetual commissioner, so Erofeev - eternal provocateur and nonconformist. I think it is unreasonable strategy for the museum.

AI: I liked the recent exhibition "not a toy!", which took place just at the Tretyakov Gallery in Krymsky Val.

C. P.: Yes, good. Came to life after his departure. I do not know if there all cool in the Tretyakov Gallery (hard to say, a very archaic organism), but when I worked for them last year, I offered to head a section where the photographic art. So, he has not yet been established. It is ridiculous that a major national museum of the country does not have a department associated with photography. Roughly speaking, the Tretyakov Gallery makes it clear that the photo does not consider art. That we have XXI century in the yard!

Interview recorded Vladimir Bogdanov, AI