Roman Babichev: Collecting wisdom says that the course of the collection as the move of the squadron, depends on the slow-moving ship
We publish the second part of the interview of the collector of Roman Babichev devoted to art-рынку and management of the collection. May 28 webinar on the next AI asked questions: head AI E. Molchanov, guest chef-редактор Dmitry Belkevich and webinar participants
the First part of the conversation — on how to create a collection of Roman Babichev, the motives of collecting and creating meeting — you can read here.
Denys Belkevych: You sometimes use the turnover of the "professional collector". Do you think that collecting can be a profession?
Roman Babichev: You believe that I am — is not living proof? (Smiles.) And the great Solomon Shuster? Valery Dudakov? And others... such a Profession is, only it is not included in the national classification of professions. After all, what is a profession? This kind of activity in which the person is a specialist and it can bring a certain income. Independent and deep collectables — is quite a complex specialty that requires a lot of knowledge. What is a collection in the full sense of the word? It is not a collection of random things, is a small Museum with all its inherent functions — storage, development and so on. The collector must possess the appropriate knowledge and skills to simultaneously solve many other tasks. It is a process that takes all day. And at the same time you must not forget the Testament of Solomon the same Shuster that the collection should not only develop myself but also to feed his master.
Yegor Molchanov: You started collecting art in the early 1990-х, when he was still alive, the Soviet school of collectibles, based on a deep knowledge of the subject and independent research. How has this culture for three decades on your eyes?
R. B.: In my view, among collectors there was a big bundle. If earlier stratification in incomes was 3-4 times, now can reach millions of times. The first group in my classification — oligarchic, for which nothing is impossible. Being aware of different degrees, sometimes even not understanding deeply into the subject, the representatives of this group can hire the best consultants, custodians, conservators, curators, which will be a collection and organize exhibitions. The second group of — is people who do not possess such means and all the above functions are performed by themselves, by their knowledge, intelligence, enterprise, talent, treasure hunting and detective work. And treasure hunting not only in the old art, but in modern: we all are looking for your Francis bacon modern art. In the second category to which I belong, the task is much more complicated: we can't compete with the oligarchs at the world auctions. Having a lot of money, easily enough to put together a decent collection, because at auctions from time to time appear desirable items. Without proper money it is harder to do, but what-то as possible by systematic research. You are all the time in the search, collect the information that-то buy, examine, weed out that-то sell and move on. Undoubtedly, at the first stage of collecting the initial need money, but I know collectors — and master repair bikes, and is known in Moscow, the former conductor of the train with a huge collection of... is Important — which collection.Its topic, depth, purpose, meaning. Whether it is just for yourself, to decorate your home, or Urbi et Orbi (the city and the world).
D. B.: How do you feel about the large number of courses and clubs of collectors that appear today? What they lack?
R. B.: I believe that such courses are needed, — true, he had not visited them. Any education in the arts is useful. I'm autodidact, you have studied everything you need to collect yourself. At that time, when I started, there were no sources of information in my questions — no books, no movies. I had to develop my own system of collecting: to develop algorithms of searching for works, to define the scope of the collection, even the laws of exhibiting on the walls — as what correctly to combine warm with cold, dark with light, portrait with landscape. It is not easy, but certainly was open long before me.
E. M.: And could you see yourself taking? In particular, online-школу ARTinvestment.RU we're planning to launch in the fall of 2020?
R. B.: I will think about your offer.
D. B.: the education you kibernetik and Cybernetics for-древнегречески — is the art of management. In other words, the man who drove the boat, with one oar provided and forward movement, and the correction direction. What you mean the management of your collection? What is movement and when you want to adjust the rate of?
R. B.: First you need to create something that you control. Then, before you stand three tasks: maintenance of the existing collection, its development and improvement. The service includes the standard functions — storage, restoration, cataloguing. Development — is the acquisition of new things and promotion meeting, promotion of the works belonging to it: participation in exhibitions, organization of exhibitions, production of catalogues, books and much more. But this is not enough: you need a collection to continually improve. You need at some point to perform it, to try to structure, then there will be clarity on what's going on with her where she moves and how it correctly to develop. You need to understand what things are superfluous, unnecessary, that is, violate the integrity of the Assembly and which, on the contrary, additionally for its completeness and depth. You might want to change the vector Assembly — so what-то things need to add. For example, starting to collect figurative work, today I turned in the collection of a sufficiently large number of abstract art in the second half of the twentieth century. But it also refers to the beloved me modernism.
E. M.: whether the collection live? Some things go others come?
R. B.: I have participated in over 80 exhibitions in various museums and galleries, the exhibition "Modernism without a manifest" in the MMSI showed 520 works for 4 months — my collection lives. Several hundred papers have beenpublished prior to the release of directory-резоне my congregation. Why I decided to prepare and release such a volume edition? I have no space for permanent exhibition, there is no public space where I could meet people with belonging to me in pieces. I have to give art historians, art students, art collectors, art lovers information about works that are in my collection: their images and complete scientific description. As much detail as I did. In the Tretyakov gallery, and her team, I gave 10 sets of directories, the same — in the Russian Museum, the instances are in the Hermitage Museum, the Russian state library, Academy of arts, in many regional museums and even at the Centre Pompidou, Tate Modern and the Frick collection. Sorry that still didn't take the catalogs to the library of Moscow state University. Need this summer is sure to pass published volume of the catalog to Universities who are engaged in artistic education.
the Rotation of things in the Assembly is mandatory, but you can't sell the work, forming the backbone of the collection. Valery Dudakov, a famous Russian collector, in his "collector's Rules" said: "Never part with rarities! Whatever money you might offer. You will not get them". Another great collector of the Soviet era, Leningrad Solomon Shuster, quoted someone-то the phrase "the Course of the collection as the move of the squadron, depends on the slow moving vessel. The squadron can't go ahead and throw a little tug. But if the tug boat will sink, it will go much faster." So if you get away from bad, poor or questionable things, then your collection will be better. It is necessary to define for themselves the boundaries — for example, I have a lot of friends, which are always in active rotation, and it's more like a commercial enterprise. It is important not only to buy —, it is important to keep. There are many people who have lived their collections, not held, failed — and very sorry about that.
E. M.: Tell us about your initiative, such as the exchange Fund. On the websites of collectors, this mechanism is not often met: many of them exchange items, but do it quietly.
R. B.: In Russia, as a rule, collector — personality closed, in the same way non-public and its collection. This tradition comes from the Soviet time, what we talked about earlier. Why I showed the exchange Fund? How do I even tell people that I have some-то number of works with which I am willing to leave? Of course, I do not show in the exchange Fund that I intended "retirement" because there is still such a thing as "burnt thing", which is less in demand. I believe that the exchange Fund — is not bad.
E. M.: have you Faced in the West with such a concept as "servicenote" things? Or is it rooted only in the Russian market?
R. B.: This is true only for our market in the West has no such concept. There best items are sold at auction. Auction catalogues are distributed worldwide, from London to New Zealand. International collectors did not fight for them? Marred thing — is an atavism in Russian collectibles, which will soon die off.
D. B.: Sooner or later, the collector must wonder about the fate of his collection. History knows three ways: donation for public use (state Museum), genetic Fund, and creating a private Museum or collection to heirs without agreed rules of governance. In the latter case, according to statistics, 90% of heirs are selling the meeting, not being engaged in its development. What vector do you see for your business life?
R. B.: Is the most difficult question. When you're young and collect things for fun, build a pyramid of works of art is a creative act, your work, is woven from many-многих elements. The fate meeting — is unlikely to be a gift to the state Museum. In-первых because the collection will not be able to live together, and mixed with other works in the vaults. In museums a lot of things much better than mine, and they mostly take part in exhibitions and hang in the exhibitions. Accordingly, the work of my congregation will be permanently buried and never see the light — can be, with rare exceptions. In the best case, thirty years later, the Museum will release a catalog of new arrivals, where they come in. And I'm too largely indulged, and his family for the sake of the collection to so to part with it. To create a Fund or a private Museum, frankly, I have no funds to build or buy the building and to ensure its operation I can't afford. So I'm left with only one option: pass to heirs. Especially because my daughter — are a certified critic, but also have a very intelligent son and a very promising five grandchildren. They understand the artistic value of my collection, and all the advantages of owning it. Of course, it may happen that the Moscow government will say: "Roman Danilovich, popolzuyutsya a certain space of 20 years — but you should make it open to the public", however, such a miracle I have little faith.
E. M.: And as you wish?
R. B.: I would not mind. Although I have about five thousand pieces and very difficult to maintain this volume: the right staff, it is difficult for me to deal with it.
E. M.: what, in your opinion, the new skills will come back to normal life collector after the removal of quarantine restrictions?
R. B.: I understand that due to the quarantine, collectors and art lovers will learn to work with technology to choose online, pay online and get their work physically. This is no easy task, but I think that the online-торговля works of art will only grow at the end of the quarantine.
E. M.: And you bought yourself online?
R. B.: the Answer yourself: when I send a photo to your phone — is online or not online? If you know the author, you accurately represent how the work looks in reality, but if you are not familiar with his work, you may be in for a surprise: you will get something quite different from what I imagined looking at the monitor screen. But in the traditional sense online-продаж I bought until a few inexpensive works.
D. B.: How do you see the future of art-рынка, including the market for Russian art, after the crisis?
R. B.: I think we will not escape from the art. It is eternal. People are drawn to beautiful, they can't enjoy only the equipment and clothing. Of course, not all mankind without exception, but 3-5% are always going to want to look at the art. So the world market will be. Russian art-рынку has never been easy, the country is often stormy. And with art our too hard and with artists of the past and contemporary authors. Well, it did not recognize the international community — only the vanguard, and that only the first names. And not always the "blame" by the artists themselves. So it was that written for the sake of bread and repeating the single another postcard landscapes and still lifes are not the best authors of the Russian Diaspora in the West more-менее known and sold at auction, and works by great Russian masters, who were accused of formalism and, in fact, deprived of the opportunity to work freely and in such volume as they could, the world community is not known and therefore not needed. And such an attitude to our art, unfortunately, partly extrapolated and contemporary artists. Art, like football, develops when you invest in it money and minds. It seems to me that the task of repositioning our art in the art world has never been at the state level. All the disparate efforts of museums rental exhibitions and galleries participating in the art-ярмарках in this area can bring substantial success. But I hope that all this will eventually be fixed. Must be the will of the state.
E. M.: Three of the Board of Roman Babichev novice collectors?
R. B.: the Advice is very simple. Learn to form, train your eyes, to educate taste. It is very important to know how to distinguish kitsch, trash and salon art from the present. What-то moment you begin to experience art on an intuitive level. People get wild pleasure, when they reach. It's like music: its all I hear on-разному, because of their musical education, although many believe that the ears all the same.
Second, do not sit on a place to move. Go to artists, their heirs, galleries, see works, touch them, hang, rearrange, ask questions. There is a saying: "Under a seated person, the piece will not slip." If you sit in one place, a collection you will not collect.
And third, get rid of his collection from the chaff. Don't be afraid to admit mistakes and to part with things.
Some of the questions raised Roman Babichev the webinar participants AI.
— That, in your understanding, is "quality art"? Who defined — artist or collector?
R. B.: I find that the quality is primarily determined by the artist: how his plan was great andas far as his ability to meet this plan. Here then there is artistic quality. Professionalism, idea, execution.
— How often have you been faced with the fakes on the art market and how to avoid them?
R. B.: One time of fakes on the market was quite a lot, especially in the late 1990-х — early 2000-х years. Later, the market began to purge them, especially after several scandals. Fakes are now, but high-quality, sophisticated counterfeits, not so much. Basically, they are designed for Amateurs and collectors who are arrogant do not go to the experts. And surprises can be the most unexpected. To avoid fakes, need to see a lot of these things and a lot of fakes. When fake tumbled down the shaft from different angles, I even classified them for yourself in the schools of forgers, techniques and handwriting work. In addition, you should choose the right expert who will help with deciding on purchase.
— are you Ready to stake possession of a piece of art?
R. B.: From the perspective of a collector — no. I don't know how will hold: for two weeks a year hanging at me, and then moved to someone-то else? If we consider fractional ownership of a work as an investment, without emotional attachment, then with my knowledge I might as well take advantage of it, realizing how marketable that item on the market and about introducing change and the demand for it in time.
— What is the most unusual argument in favor of buying a particular work has taken place in deciding on purchase?
R. B.: I have always tried to approach the shopping the most balanced and rational. It is not my practice to "unexpected" arguments.
— How to store a collection, if not all can hang?
R. B.: Racks — for pictures, folders, — for graphics, shelves for sculptures.
— is considered that every serious collector there is a corner in the pantry, busy, to put it mildly, it errors. What is the most offensive error in your collecting?
R. B.: it is difficult for Me to answer, the brain is trying to displace their own mistakes. This time I'm not exactly brag, but next time I'll tell you. On this occasion, I recall a conversation with the famous Moscow antiquary Mikhail Goldini, who ran the antique Department at the bookstore "Moscow". He uttered a phrase that I remembered for life: "Good things I have go away quickly. And everything you see in my store, — is a monument to my greed, it's a graveyard of my mistakes".
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