With gallery owner Vladimir Ovcharenko AI met a week before the second auction of contemporary art VLADEY, which will be held October 17, 2013. The talk was not only about trading but also about the market situation as a whole

with gallery owner Vladimir Ovcharenko ARTinvestment.RU met a week before the second auction of contemporary art VLADEY, which will be held October 17, 2013 . Upcoming auctions and high interest , if only because the first auction showed a record percentage of care for the entire Russian auction market . But the conversation was not only about trading but also about the market situation in general, and that hinders the development of the national market of contemporary art and the promotion of our artists abroad .

on the Current Situation

ARTinvestment.RU: Often we hear that our citizens after emigrating stop buying Russian and switch to the art world - the Impressionists, expressionists , local modern. Is it really so ?

Vladimir Ovcharenko : Not so simple. Purchase of works by Claude Monet, for example, should be viewed primarily as an investment instrument rich people. Imagine how much Russian art would have had to physically buy 60 million , for which you can buy a small Monet ? We had a gallery in London and worked there for two years and represent about how and what is happening there. People go to London to buy real estate there for 50-80 million pounds. Usually this is an old country house or apartment first freshness . It is difficult to imagine that such an interior they will buy something modern. But the art of the late XIX - early XX century - easily. And friends for a glass of brandy is not ashamed to invite an old boast .

general, the idea that the Russian contemporary art market entirely moved to London - a big illusion. There was this idea that the dissatisfaction with the internal processes in humans generates a pessimistic mood, makes the move to London - and everything miraculously changed all blooms and changes sign from minus to plus . It turned out , not so. In London, there are other disadvantages, which at times appeared to outweigh advantages. So people do not come off with pessimism , there they are in the same mood . And this mood does not lead to an interest in art, and even more so to its purchase .

AI: How badly affected leaving collectors in our market ?

B. A. : Many families moved to London, but their business interests are here , and they themselves are often here . In this case, a lot of property remaining here , even the desire to hang something on the wall it does not appear if no one lives , so why waste money on something that may soon have to sell ? Do not forget that the boom of the early 2000s was associated with a wave of optimism and with large amounts of real estate under construction in Moscow and the Moscow region . People are going to live in an environment that they liked . Someone walked in the direction of the antiques , others have gained to date. Now we do not see large volumes of construction. If you open a real estate brokerage newspaper , there solid " for sale ... ", " for sale ... ", " for sale ... " What used to cost $ 20 million , barely sold for 6. And that was worth 70 million , generally not sold. All this creates certain problems and art market .

AI: Does anyone replaces retiring buyers ? Businessmen leave, officials after the dismissal of Luzhkov (and this was the first blow to the art market , at least antiques ) to buy almost ceased . Who to buy ? This is a dead end ?
B. A. : In addition to the pessimistic scenario , I see more. There is a natural change of generations. And to replace the businessmen and officials who left Luzhkov pores come to the young , who travel a lot , see a lot , read a lot , a lot of talking . They are not educated on the material of the Soviet textbooks. And I find it hard to imagine that thirty or forty years after the western people will come and buy the University or Kharlamov . It is beyond the scope of their interests. Here we look back : around iPhones , iPads and computers. Well what this is combined ? With this combined Pepperstein , Chtak , Chuykov . How do people come to think about buying? People go out to the street of a large city - that surrounds them ? Sea of ​​light , the sea of gadgets and advertising. They are not surrounded by a gold frame with a rider in a silver hat. And this is of course a contemporary feel .

AI: Do collectors of antique art grows its own change , and they , too, all will be well. Do you have appeared in the modern sector , this new audience ?

VO : There was . Let it not so much, but it is interesting to work with. And it is responsive to the perception of art. She is interested in some paradoxical things that make us think , a different view of the current situation . This is the subject of contemporary art. And if we take even a relatively high affordability of modern art in comparison with antiques , I think that the interest in it will grow .

AI: Why is the new generation prefers to buy Russian , and not foreign ?

VO : The practice of the world is the same : a German buys German first , then everything else , the Chinese first buys the Chinese , and only then do the rest . We certainly can be called Wonderful entire planet , but I do not see it . Russian also buys Russian , and then everything else .

about upcoming auctions

AI: Know that the first auction VLADEY improved throughout the Russian Statistics auction market? Without you, it was 40 percent, and with you - 45 .
VO : Well, as you can see . Maybe we should ask some prize you ?

AI: Second VLADEY bid auction will be held at a new venue - the New Arena ( the first took place in the premises the former factory "Red October ». - Note . ed . ). What attracted this place ?

VO : We 're talking to you , when the auction has not yet taken place, but at the moment Manege seems an ideal platform for an auction of contemporary art. First, in Moscow there are certain logistics - how people move on cars - and you can not ignore this factor . Secondly , it is important how you feel on the outside and feel like inside. Art requires a filing. New Manezh all know , this room has a certain reputation . All the rest have different disadvantages .

AI: On the second auction will take all the seats in the hall ? Or , like last time , will be an area for shoppers and area without chairs for those who wish to observe the bidding ?

VO : since we do not sell tickets , people are free to come and see. But where there is a trade , there is no need for outsiders to participate , discuss, who bought and engage in gossip . It is necessary to comply with resolution: that buyers could safely participate in the bidding, so no one was shoving elbows , not shoved a microphone and did not take pictures .

AI: What are the future plans for the auction of

VO : We are - in the process: something to do, look at the result of adjust . Testing different things , we check ourselves interested. More about the plans we say when they host the second auction .

AI: At the first auction you many buyers were called by their names . At this time , the feelings , it also will be an auction of friends, or wider ?

VO : Of course, we would like to expand the circle bidders. I am the way , the last auction of several customers for the first time seen. At this time we have a partner company GHP, a partner and chairman of the board of directors is Mark Garber, and look forward to an influx of new customers - customers of this famous financial group .

AI: The total for all auctions problem - the receipt . The owners were more than bring ? " Gravity " has already appeared ?

VO : Yes, have more to offer . We have different sources : collectors , dealers , artists , gallery owners . There is something and out of our inventory. But we do not forget that the auction VLADEY - this is not an auction REGINA Gallery artists . But then again, we must not forget that in REGINA Gallery - great team of artists. And to ignore their work, a whole layer of high-quality art, it would be wrong . Yes, we try to make up for auction fell mainly those of our artists that we once had already sold . And suddenly, the collector decided to go out and earn a little bit . We're not telling him, " You go to London and sell it ." If you see that this is the real price , we feel that we will find her a buyer, then OK. It is important also in this case not only get the material , but also to bring together the position of the seller and the potential buyer for the price .

AI: You rigidly dictate estimate ?

VO : It's always a negotiation process. Question argument. Compared to the first time we just easier to talk with vendors on price. They have made ​​sure that our words are not empty , and backed up by a good experience .

AI: Catalogue of the upcoming auction of the second compared to the first seems to be more diverse and experimental somewhere . Had this idea ?

VO : We have extensive experience preparing exhibits, and we initially see that with what will work well . We try to make sure that the one who loves the art of the young , came in and it did not jarred . Conversely, to those who love the sixties , it was interesting to see the young people. It's all one world : we show the current state of affairs and its prehistory, has grown from a particular direction of art . Therefore, we take arefevtsev (artists circle Aref'eva . - Approx. Ed . ), , Tsalkova , , Bulatov . But then when has not delve .

AI: Why in Russia almost no one sells lottery drawing contemporary authors ?

VO : we have in this catalog is limited edition stuff Yuri Yuri I. Avvakumova and Alexei Kallima . But the special task of the lottery graph we did not put. In general, our market is still only the beginning . In the West, because the long-standing tradition to buy limited edition items , and we have 70 years of Soviet rule which has been a tradition ? The carpets on the walls ... In the world there is a large circle of collectors lottery drawing. Therefore, a publisher who produces edition of 50 copies , already knows that he has 30 copies at once by subscription gets going . That is the business plan takes into account that there are 30 people who default buy everything he releases . A 20 copies , which he sells in the market - is it an additional profit. We also undertake to someone once and will master the subject . For now, just not a successful model . In this model will be all important: where , when, what , logistics , pricing, what works . There must be a clear , sound economic model . Product, price , marketing, packaging, shipping , target audience, the champagne. It all should be at the highest level , then only it will turn out .

Ways development

AI: By the age-old question of how to restart the art market . It is clear that there are things complicated infrastructure , but there are relatively simple . Obviously the same as the first part of individuals or of famous people in cultural activities attracts the attention . Comes to mind the same spring Antique Salon , which suddenly came Lyudmila Putin. Press had time to react, and the next day at the Salon was a boom of visitors. What prevents even so maintain a national art market ?

VO : It is clear that the participation of well-known people provokes a wave of interest . But the question is, what exactly do you want to sell . If you purchase tickets for an event known face and said that it was good , it formed a queue of those wishing to see what good there . And if you want to sell a work of art , the effect may even be reversed. Or may not be any . There is no clear relationship . In short , the appearance of some of the first persons promotes the sale of tickets. But everything else is questionable. If the first person does not follow instructions from, what is good and necessary to support the rest , the effect can be expected .

AI: Even the fact of participation provides a certain legitimacy of the process: once the main people came , so buy art " can be ».

VO : In addition to the visit itself , must be clearly marked position . Known fact of history : when Reagan became president of the United States, it has sharply reduced funding for cultural institutions that are subsidized from the budget. Said : sorry , no money. But what I can do - is to come to the opening of the exhibition . And not only myself come, but bring with them the captains of business . is clear that when the opening of the American president is coming , and with it, the head of General Motors, it is a situation that allows you to raise money for the exhibition , " spud " sponsors . This is a real support . The task was to shift the culture of the shoulders of the state on business, and he decided this task . Therefore, the higher the level is clearly expressed their satisfaction , the greater the effect . And in our situation, we do not see this approval and do not hear .

AI: What should we learn from the West on the part of the art business ?

VO : we have to work all the more - and to us , and to artists . Introduce new mechanisms to communicate more , less thump .

AI: Another stop conflict , perhaps ?

VO : That too. You never read that the seller elite Capellini chairs the firm had a row with the distributor of " Tyry - download option " and scolds her in a magazine or on social networks. In Russia 15 years ago, modern designer furniture industry did not exist. Nobody bought this furniture . But jointly undertook - and rocked the market . Today, the furniture makers of several magazines , a lot of advertising, showrooms . This is an example of how the industry is rebuilt first , developing, and then later appear in it their own separate course . A chopping zero , you still get zero. We were trying to form associations , but so far nothing serious has not ended .

AI: And do you need? Feel the need of such a professional association ?

VO : Honestly : not much. I now ask, why gallery owners will be collected that will be addressed? Let's get together informally . What the government has allocated 57,000 square meters of exhibition space, which must be divided ? I believe that contemporary art is more important than the industry would be to create a broad alliance , which could go to all the artists : and gallery owners , artists and art historians . It is more important than bringing galleries. Gallery is now just hostages general state of affairs. A wide association could defend the common interests of the entire industry: the design of the program , the same program as the long-term development of the culture . We have such a plan? There is a plan for the development of beef cattle to Russia in 2020 - I can see that .

AI: There is a " roadmap" for Culture ( Russian Federation Government Decree December 28, 2012 № 2606 -r " action plan ( " roadmap ")" Changes in the social sphere , aimed at improving the efficiency of culture . '" . - Ed .). Very particular document - about the growth of attendance , about the Internet in libraries about staff salaries and share about security websites of theaters and museums .

VO : in order for us to have a flowering of art , let's sit down and create a program of recovery culture. To make the program did not write any officials who are thinking about reporting and kickbacks , and smart, young and educated . Or let's take will attract world-class specialists . Some command of France ( they have their own support system of art ) , the other from England, a third of Germany. Let us find sponsors. These programs do not cost huge money. Let write , and then we will choose the best and implemented. Held a competition for all sorts of architectural projects . Why not make to the cultural development of the project ? The money for this can be found . There are all sorts of funds, the same fund Prokhorov. You can make a charity auction - whatever you like .

AI: Let's say the program is well written. Then what ?
VO : Next she discusses the art community , sought the consent of the parties. And after all the subjects agreed that the program can lobbied as lobbied everything else - for example, the same beef cattle said .

AI: Why are people active art market do not participate in the work of the expert groups on different levels? Ministry of Culture in your work somehow help ?

VO : Do not interfere - and good. Perhaps this is due to the negative perception of the word " market." Although it is very strange. Because when it comes to some other industries , such as metallurgy , the companies that make profits , just actively involved in the development of some initiatives in the area of legislation. Here , it is believed that once the art market, means any Marchand , speculators , hucksters , so their opinion can be ignored .

AI: Ready to take part in such work ?

VO : If the case is serious and we see that it may end up with something , then why not .

AI: By the way , on practical steps : we have a single fair sensible left ...

VO : this means that there is no person to whom such an interesting organization of the fair. We were wondering - we did Cosmoscow. It was a success .

AI: Given that you're more to Cosmoscow relations have not, there are no plans to repeat the success ? Make a similar fair , albeit under a different name ?

VO : If the mood, the time and conditions - will do . Now think about the fact that the auction was good, but on this topic can be developed indefinitely .

AI: How is it in the world today belong to the modern Russian art ?

VO : We are involved in many major international fairs , so I can say that from 2010 related to Russian art has changed much for the worse . THOSE interest : what do Russian artists , but now visitors look at the sign : " Oh, it's Russian and Russian artists gallery ? Then we are not interested ».

The fact that negative political attitude to the country immediately transferred to that institution that you represent , and those artists that you represent . Here is an example : you go on such a large fair Art Basel or Frieze. There are about 250 galleries. Left Gallery in London , to the right of the gallery in New York - and suddenly the gallery from Cairo ... Here you interested? No, it will pass .

to Russia in the world is potentially a very good relationship , but in the current situation is very bad. One explanation : the pace of life today is very high, so the intelligent part of the foreign public understands that Russia's image in the media, most likely, distorted, but to deal with that no one has the time and effort. Therefore, the first button they push mentally , it's not "good" or "bad" and "ignore" . The alien says this: " Russia ? 'll Deal later on , as long as there is no good news ».

AI: There are things which do not depend on us , but there are those in which no one to blame . For example, Russian collectors and interested parties allow lots of modern Russian artists remain unsold at auction Class Phillips. Ukrainians of their support , and Russian - no.

VO : Well, it just does not support, and illusion .

AI: at least the auction statistics do not spoil your ...

VO : It's not important. The man who will be in this deal , sees through all the tricks . Can not an artist who in Kiev sold for 10,000 euros, suddenly sold at Phillips for 100,000 . You know it, I know it. And buyers that stupid ?

AI: Who today in the West as Russian brands ?

VO : The first brand - Kabakov . The second Russian brand, which is known - is Pussy Riot. You might be hard to imagine it , you're writing about auctions and investment ... "War" has virtually disappeared from the horizon . Pepperstein well know .

AI: The scandalous situation does not interfere with the business ? As a whole , this policy is reflected in the contemporary art market ?

VO : In the case of Pussy Riot , this leads to the fact that what -that part of the conservative public is afraid and tries to stay away from modern art . However, I see the obvious advantages. First , Pussy Riot - the voice of young people , then we have talented young people , struggling, as is to be young , gained ground in the old-timers . Secondly , Pussy Riot - it's still a Russian brand. A lot of you know the modern Russian brands? Third - they are ours. Speaking in his final statement at the trial , they were given estimates for their actions in terms of art , proudly calling themselves artists . So my attitude towards them - positive .

AI: How do you assess Russia's place in the world in the context of the development of modern art ?

VO : in terms of ideas , I think we get into the top ten. By cultural potential , we are very interesting, but the lack of desire in society and the state to develop modern ideas leads to the fact that this potential is not realized .

AI: What to do? Just give time ? Or adjust the system , from school ?

VO : It is necessary to sit down and do the program . Here in some sectors of agriculture Russia came to the same level of production of grain, and the Soviet Union produced , became independent from imports. Because the program was developed , created conditions that made ​​the investment. And there it happened. Similarly , as the country is now self-sufficient in pork and chicken. Remember , 15 years ago, " Bush legs " ? Now this is not even a topic . And beef is much worse , because the planning horizon is another long-term investment is much greater. Long-term is often not clear. Sitting minister or other official and thinks, " Well, I will work out a program , but as long as I'll start to implement , I already will be removed . Why is she such is needed? Let's site a little more, buy books for libraries - it can immediately calculate and report back to the president that 10 per cent was in there somewhere , and 15 per cent here. " Otherwise, what do you say ? What I have in 10 years there will be 50 modern museums with modern climate control systems ? Or we will open 25 new schools, and for that we send around the world of the future of young teachers that they have adopted an experience like Peter I sent ? Without it ? As a non- climb ? There are, of course, self-taught . But the potential is much greater. If you create an environment that helps people to open it .

AI: Probably the fear that these frames are not coming back .

VO : Kabakov is coming. And Sharapova . And Ovechkin . All the same of us. Russia as an aircraft carrier . Flew the plane and then still on base. If there is much land . And if the carrier is stolen while you're circling , then flop into the sea no one will. It is better to stay on the beach, with all their secrets . Important safety of aircraft carrier .

AI: Thanks for the interesting conversation. We wish you success in your endeavors and good luck in the upcoming auction .

Interview conducted Babulin Konstantin and Vladimir Bogdanov , AI