The famous English curator said in an interview with SPIEGEL, he thinks about the restitution

• Sir Norman Rosenthal. Source: spiegel.de
  

Sir Norman Rosenthal (Norman Rosenthal, pp. 1944) for more than three decades spent in the position of chief curator of the British Royal Academy of Arts. He recently gave an interview to German magazine SPIEGEL, which expressed its opinion on the restitution.

SPIEGEL : Sir Norman, why do you think that the restitution of cultural property stolen the Nazis during the Holocaust, it is time to stop?

Norman Rosenthal : It creates a completely erroneous impression that the restitution can atone, although such damage is impossible to recover, especially with a few works of art.

S. : You are aware that your application may cause mixed reactions?

NR : It is noticeable that the most experienced on this occasion the Germans. My friends from Germany who hold liberal views, warned me that my arguments can adopt a "right". Although the last thing I seek, - is something that my statements were used to "promote" the ideas that I believe are incorrect.

S. : Following Second World War, many works of art stolen by the Nazis, were in museums. Do not go if you are too far, arguing that it is necessary to set time limits? It is such a "sick" theme ...

NR : Not all my arguments seem to be incorrect. I supported the Director-known museums in London and New York, as well as many art dealers, some of whom are Jews.

S. : But many museum directors is just trying to make restitution to stop - because they fear losing their masterpieces.

NR : I understand it very well. I am aware that such views expressed out of my mouth, produces quite a different impression - because I was Jewish. I can not call myself a devout, but I am fully aware of their affiliation to the Jewish people. And I'm not saying that to abandon the restitution easily. This is a very complex issue, but deal with it should be.

S. : But we are talking about the largest theft of cultural property in history, as well as about that the claims of Holocaust victims and their relatives deliberately ignored for decades.

NR : What is restitution, that without it - the history of Germany never " Clear. Art should not be responsible for these terrible crimes. Many people, including my relatives were killed in concentration camps. You can not even imagine what a nightmare then going on. And how simple it is? (Is it really possible to minimize the extent of this scourge. - AI .), Giving someone a picture of Titian? The wounds of the Holocaust will never heal, and the Germans must learn to live with it.

S. : But you can (to make amends to individual families. - AI .), returning the value that rightfully belong to them.

NR : One lawyer asked me to fight for ownership of my parents. He even wanted to pay for the investigation.

S. : This is about art?

H . R. : None. This real estate in Thuringia, where born, my mother, and a large farm in the outskirts of Bratislava, once belonged to the family of my father. But I'm not interested in returning the property. I want to live their lives, and not "stuck" in the past. Neither I nor you can not imagine what happened then.

S. : This is you say, the historian?

NR : Yes. I am interested in the past. Everyone must understand his relationship to it, but I live in the world today. I do not want to enrich themselves at the expense of the bitter fate of my parents, and I hope that my children will think the same way. Each generation has to reinvent itself. The fact that the most important thing - is present. We should all live in the present.

S. : What you mean the history of your family?

NR : For me it is something sentimental. I even went to the place where my parents were born. I was in Slovakia, and in Thuringia. I have been there in the days of the GDR. These visits I called my "state visits».

S. : Why do so officially?

N. AR: I met a representative of the Royal Academy. The government of East Germany were interested in that artists from the GDR were exhibited here, and so they decided to risk (and invite me. - AI .). I was asked: "What do you want to see, Mr. Rosenthal, would you go see the memorial at Buchenwald concentration camp?" I said I'd rather see the house my mother in Mühlhausen, and I was taken there in a limousine. I went into the yard and saw that there were sitting two elderly women in black dresses. They were like the raven. One of the women asked me why I came, and I said that I am the son of Kathe Zucker (Käthe Zucker). She asked me a single question: "She's still alive?" I said "Yes" and left. I had the feeling that I met ghost. I have no photos of that day, because I usually do not do photos, but this scene I will never forget.

S. : All the people in different attitude to the past. Some are proud that their ancestors were collectors, and would like to reclaim items from their collections. Such people feel affection for family photos, and perhaps even to works of art owned by their parents.

NR : Maybe, but to me it is not true. I have no rights that reached my parents, my grandparents. It turns out that some people are benefiting from the fact that they laid on the restitution of any property, while others have experienced the same nightmare, are not receiving. This is unfair.

S. : But, calling for an end to the restitution, you are helping so stubborn, that still refuse to acknowledge the past. Museums, for example, do not provide visitors information that some items from their collections were stolen by the Nazis.

NR : But you're in the Louvre also never read that such a sculpture was kidnapped in Italy by Napoleon. That's all - matter of the distant past. The same applies to works stolen from the palace after the Russian Revolution. No one in their right mind would not "promote" the idea of restitution of works by Impressionists and other objects taken from the aristocrats. Sooner or later, maybe soon enough we will think the same of art confiscated by the Nazis.

S. : Now comes more and more books and scientific papers on the subject of stolen art, but some questions do not yet have answers, and the provenance of many works have not yet been elucidated. There is no reason to make again to ignore this problem.

NR : Investigate nobody forbids, but in my opinion, very important to study art. All this - the questions of priorities. What are your priorities? If we were told that one-tenth of Germany belonged to the Jews, you would give them this part? That would be adequate. Or perhaps better to think of limitations, because in the end, we must learn to live with each other and treat history as history, not as a continuation of this?

S. : Is it really that easy?

NR : I'm not saying that it's easy. I have close friends - Jews who hate Germany and soul. They say that the whole country should be covered with sea salt for what Germans did to Jews.

S. : How do you feel about the Germans?

NR : I am a man first and foremost as an individual. My aunt, a Jew could survive (in the Holocaust. - AI .) In Germany because the Germans gave her shelter. This is also a part of history, which is becoming more complex and subjective. After the war, Aunt lived in the area of the Rhine. In the fifties and sixties, we often come to her for summer vacation. I do not want to downplay the horrors of the past, but I also do not want to gave Russian art, which the Red Army was stolen during the World in Germany. Drawings Durer (Albrecht Dürer), for example, must remain in Russia.

S. : The Germans could hardly have been pleased to hear that. They are still fighting for the return of these lost treasures.

NR : But the kidnapping of these items the Red Army already history.

S. : And at what time the event begins to be called" history »?

NR : Not later than die his last witness. How else to understand that history and what is not? Do I need to return the product currently living children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? And their descendants? No, the product should be given within 10 years after the death of the owner, not later. For my 15-year-old daughter of Hitler - such as a distant figure, like Napoleon.

S. : Clemens Toussaint (Clemens Toussaint), a German specialist in tracing stolen Nazi cultural values, said that the spirit of Nazism is not expelled from the museums (there is a reluctance of museums to part with work, got there after the Nazi seizure. - AI ).

NR : I do not see in this statement is nothing but a linguistic balancing act. What would it mean? Of course, museums have responsibilities, but I believe that their primary responsibility is keeping the art, the transfer of knowledge about it from generation to generation. Incidentally, we should remember that in recent years, the art market have grown considerably, - this fact has aroused in many people greed. Those trying to earn money on the tragedy of the Holocaust, cause my association with the vultures.

S. : severely.

NR : If you are in England, decided to sell after the war the work of Paul Klee (Paul Klee), you would have no one and five pounds for it gave. Even in the early 1960's you could buy a collage by Kurt Schwitters (Kurt Schwitters) for ten pounds. But now such works are hundreds of thousands, even millions, and auction houses, dealers and lawyers begin to diligently investigate the provenance of works of public assembly. In many cases, the pictures appear on trading immediately after the restitution, attorneys and pick up a 50 percent brought their sums.

S. : What could be more outrageous, than the fact that in museum collections contain paintings, which they have no right?

NR : It is very sad when the exhibits suddenly disappear from Museums and nobody can see them.

S. : Should art all the time to be on everyone's mind?

NR : The most important work - yes. Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, too, belongs to everyone. What would happen if she too was called "stolen work of art"? I am very upset that the heirs of Richard Strauss (Richard Strauss) to put a stick in the wheel for those who want to perform his music. Fine art can not be so easily reproduced, so it must be a responsible people. In a sense, a good collectors do the same thing and museums: they share the art with others, and thus save people from illiteracy. Art can not hide.

S. : Among the most famous works, received restitution in recent years - paintings by Ernst Ludwig Kirchner (Ernst Ludwig Kirchner) and Gustav Klimt (Gustav Klimt). Ronald Lauder (Ronald Lauder), a New York collector of Jewish descent, bought them from the heirs for the record sum. He gave 135 million dollars for a portrait of Klimt's muse and patron Adele Bloch-Bauer (Adele Bloch-Bauer).

NR : I know Ronald Lauder. He knows my opinion, and I would not say it but "penetrated". And my opinion is this: the boom in the art market spawned greed.

S. : And now in this market, as elsewhere, it's not the glory of God. Will this affect restitution disputes?

NR : Who knows? I recently met in New York with an American banker and philanthropist, so he panicked when he learned that he would have to return any bonuses. And then he called someone from Washington and said: "This is the end of capitalism as we know it." I thought that he had a heart attack. Although the art market is closely linked to the financial world, it would be wrong to assert that he died. This is the last unregulated market, and he carries himself well.

S. : Many of the artists whose works were exhibited at the exhibitions organized by you, become famous, and their work increased in price. Are not you proud of this?

NR : None. If the world was perfect, people would not have to pay for art.

S. : You are introduced to Britain with many German artists. In the 1970's and 1980's, for example, you represent the movement of "New Wild».

NR : I was one of the first people outside Germany showed the work of such artists as Joseph Beuys (Joseph Beuys), Anselm Kiefer (Anselm Kiefer), Georg Baselitz (Georg Baselitz) and Sigmar Polke (Sigmar Polke), in addition, I wrote one of the first index of articles about creativity Neo Rauch (Neo Rauch).

S. : Why are you so interested in German art?

H . R. : Of course, this is largely due to my German roots, and of course, in German art is something special that I was very close, something is very expressive, open, radical.

S. : Was it difficult to interest the German art of the British?

NR : They had no choice. I am always satisfied with the exhibition for yourself, and if they like the other, the better. Many of my "German" exhibits were very popular, from Cranach (Lucas Cranach) to Kirchner, from Joseph Beuys to Georg Baselitz, and so on, I'm not talking about the great Charlotte Salomon (Charlotte Salomon), which first had to re-open. I am very glad that I am honored to represent German art. My German heritage - is part of my personality. I would never complain about life. I made a remarkable career in England, and I have such a life that my grandparents could not even dream of. I was incredibly lucky, and I can say that happiness should not depend on wealth.

S. : Mr. Rosenthal, thank you for the interview.

Source: spiegel. de