The problems in the auctioneer, the rules of the game on the art market, the current situation and future projections ARTinvestment.RU talks with the famous auction organizer and owner of the same name by Leonid Shishkin Gallery

Leonid Shishkin. Photo by Vladimir Bogdanov, AI

Contradictory outcomes of major events on the art market (auctions, spring Antiquarian salon exhibitions) suggests that we are experiencing some kind of transit phase. Probably, we are witnessing a turning point: the market is changing, and where all taxied, we can only guess. In such cases, special value is the opinion of the market practitioners, the people to keep abreast. Not by chance in an attempt to understand the processes and look to the future ARTinvestment. RU appealed to well-known organizer of an auction and the owner of the same name by Leonid Shishkin Gallery .

ARTinvestment.RU: Leonid, here was a dense series of events: the Russian auction in New York, Salon, several Russian auctions. Interviewed the participants after XXX Antiquarian Salon, and the general opinion is: the most sluggish Shop for all time of the hearing. In some stands, as we have complained the price was not asked even once. You are too involved, you have something that was?

Leonid Shishkin: I have a different impression. On the contrary, this time a nice salon - a normal western.

AI: In the sense that it looks neat?

L. Sh : Outwardly, then we have long been doing well. And I'm talking about the audience. In the West, too, no crowds do not go, do not these people with their bags, collecting all the pamphlets in a row. And there were many buyers, especially in the early days. Another thing is that the prices were at all unrealistic. But it's the rules: at the salon put a high price and then sell half below.

AI: We have complained that visitors were not asked prices. Older buyers - it is clear to them literally worked on the first day. But many complain that there was no fresh people.

L. Sh : So this is all in the past. Live - the head in a dream: that time, about the money, about those crowds. All passed. Sailed on this river. Ahead at all other beaches. Those golden days would not be repeated.

AI: From new buyers come from?

L. Sh : I have come, apparently, from advertising.

AI: Explaining the outcome of the Salon, and many cited the wrong time - just before Easter.

L. Sh : That's true. I also have a bad day for the auction was - the Saturday before Easter. Someone flew to a meeting of the Holy Fire. With some old customers managed to work on the phone, but it is worth while.

AI: Then how to explain that in the jewelry of the car everything went well?

L. Sh : There's all the weather can make one person.

AI: How do you assess your past auction ?

L. Sh : Very successful, given the objectives. There was, however, personal failure with one of the clients. He believed that his Konchalovsky worth 900 thousand dollars, and I persuaded him to reduce the estimate of 600-900 thousand dollars to the price were to rise, - he told me trust and agreement. It turned out the same as the auction was only one step up. The start was 18 million rubles, and bought for 19 million. The fact that been sold - well. But I feel bad for the reputation, the client dissatisfied. This is a personal failure. And the rest - all good. The people were many: not enough chairs, the directory is not enough. A lot of new people, from old customers in the hall was only two.

AI: At the auction record was set for creativity Vladimir Yakovlev - a phenomenal price for a gouache from the collection of Mikhail Krasnov. As developed bidding?

L. Sh : Why is it so expensive to sell Yakovlev - honestly, I do not know. Both buyers who have bargained for Yakovlev, I saw for the first time. Three started, and then two "escaped" in unprecedented distance. Both works Yakovlev eventually bought by one person. I do not believe that we can sell it and for 25 thousand dollars. Believed that its price is 10-15 thousand. And then he sold for 60. Then, unexpectedly, that the purchaser many years ago to buy from us pictures of the Soviet academician Vasyl Yakovlev .

AI: How do you fight with the defaulters? And how many of these episodes?

L. Sh : can not wrestle. Statistics is low, but it happens. Sometimes very unexpectedly. In past auctions involved a new customer, which resulted in a respected man. He bargained and bought three works. And one of them he is a bargain, after killing two other bids from buyers and drove the price is quite high. Then, a week does not pay. I'm calling - said: "Gene did not like anything I will not buy. Then will come as something to you and buy you anything. " What do I do with him?

AI: Maybe you can offer something to other buyers who have fought for this lot?

L. Sh : It is theoretically possible. But it's just looks bad to the buyer. Imagine that I - the buyer and tell me that someone refused to pay, and it suggested to you. For me, it would mean only one thing: that under me someone "set up" to get me to "lift", then "bump" I could not - and now the organizers give the reverse (Leonid Shishkin, describes a well-known procedure of deception buyer auctioneer with a dummy person. - AI .). Therefore, I never do. And I can not tell all the reasons for such proposals. I was not empowered. In general, for me as a professional is not good.

AI: And if you leave everything as is, is not good to deliverers.

L. Sh : Yes, badly. But with the deliverers easier for me because the thing-then here it is. I did not steal it. Especially deliverer sits at the auction and see all the eyes. Sees that the hammer struck, and the thing stayed with me. What do you do? I myself did so on the money MacDougall'e waited a half years. Still waited. Such cases do happen. Under our laws and our way of amicably settle all accounts.

AI: And you empty the defaulter to bid next time?

L. Sh : Pushcha. Sometimes a man threw an act, but he still a client. Do not have enough customers so that they dissipate. If you come and bring money - Forest. I'm not a teacher.

AI: In what ways will the money? He will need a deposit?

L. Sh : No, the makings are usually not taken. Rarely when bargaining for especially expensive things, I ask to pledge or provide advice. If you call, for example, a well-known art dealer and I will say that he knows this person, please.

On the other hand, the last time a major purchase made previously unknown to me are people who simply come registered as it should: leave name, phone number, e-mail. Two laminated immediately advance by credit card, and then came and underpaid. The third decided to pay by bank transfer.

AI: By the results of April open for you to some new trend?

L. Sh : open. First, the market is still weak. Secondly, a lot rests on the individual work with older clients. Thirdly, today, is of particular importance factor posleauktsionnyh sales. Many customers say they like it, but now let the auction will take place - and if not sell, then we'll talk. That is the trend - not enough now, do not beat up on auction and to return to the issue after the auction.

Here is a recent example. Sold after the auction Gritsai and Chelishchev, negotiations on other things.

AI: How do you like the new auction site in the Radisson Royal Hotel Moscow (hotel "Ukraine »)?

L. Sh : «Ukraine" - is a completely new situation. There all the time there are people unknown to me, not because of our circle. This is not the old collectors. Old-today impossible to sell anything. Those who go to salons as a job, do not buy, and sell more often.

AI: And how do you explain that older buyers are mainly sell?

L. Sh : So I say to all: buying - selling. Otherwise, you may run into any false illusions. You check yourself - sell, to understand: but you are someone you want? Put up for sale and see. Be sure to check themselves in this way. The more that sell hard, especially on such a quiet market.

AI: Why did you give such advice? Such thoughts are likely scare off potential buyers.

L. Sh : I always try to speak the truth, to maximize the amount of real information. I am also interested in these people. They feel the attitude and more confidence. Do not say, buy me more, because then it will be even more expensive ... Someday the man himself to find out everything and think that Shishkin had cheated him. Contrary, I want him to know: when you buy - no there is no guarantee. Sell! Necessarily need to sell.

AI: Question of the profile for "Leonid Shishkin Gallery" socialist realism. There is no sense that the subject is completely exhausted itself?

L. Sh : There's a sense that now the Socialist Realism few people need.

AI: Q: now or forever?

L. Sh : In this world is never good. The current situation with socialist realism - it is a natural phenomenon. But this too will pass. There will come another generation and see with new eyes. The more so because the quality is there, the period is short, not a lot of good things.

AI: From the modern art you do not renounce? Will include a range?

L. Sh : On the old site on Neglinnaya auctions will be conducted as before: for foreigners, for beginners collectors. Assortment will vary. If the old product is not sold, to look for a new one. We are engaged in trade. That is, we will continue to be a big string of Soviet classics, but if this can not subsist, then something needs to change.

The platform is in the "Ukraine" I try to make universal. Sold to the sixties - please. Will take Aivazovsky - too well.

AI: Why, by the way, get rid of Aivazovsky?

L. Sh : Well, because people do not plan on 50 or 100 years. A current trend is clear - XIX century will go away. In the west the same XIX century is not worth as much as is the Russian art of the XIX century? Prices are simply incomparable, and we will go the same way. Air from the "Native Speech" will be phased out.

AI: For a new generation of "Native Speech" is just another.

L. Sh : Yes. In the market there will be no people for whom "Native Speech" - is a XIX century. They will be another "mother tongue". Do not know what it is. But new people will dictate new trends.

AI: And to what segment will be a surge of interest in the new stage?

L. Sh : You can see how the western market is structured.

AI: There's something to feel, claimed by modern and post-war art, photography.

L. Sh : I think that we'll come back. I think that trend will not only this, but a change in market structure. More auctions will be more active cooperation with the people who can offer interesting projects - for example, their private collections.

AI: With regard to changes in market structure. There is no sense that the Antique Shop can really shlopnutsya? All at one time is in decline. Like Detroit.

L. Sh : No, he should not shlopnutsya. On the contrary, it is a beautiful story. 30 times already spent, a place "namolennoe. Of course, everything has a beginning, middle and end. Salon has ceased to exist in one of his old form, when advertising was not needed, when everybody had a lot of customers, when there were many who wish to enter this market. There was a time when the salon know just about everything, and it was the only place where you could go all otsmotret.

time when everything worked itself has passed. Put the point. Place will only need to competently build information occasions, to manage advertising. How something as doing it in Maastricht (meaning fair TEFAF. - AI .).

AI: In general, what are your expectations as galleries and auction structure?

L. Sh : All that the audience that bought early have already napokupalas, sated, grown old, and where some energy is already gone. Plus, many have homes outside of Russia. And we need new blood. And new buyers emerge, we feel it on our site at the hotel "Ukraine". We must look for new ways. So we try to establish the Internet, go to the province. Maybe even go there with a pre-auction exhibition. Everyone needs to learn. Sotheby's for nearly 300 years to create a structure.

AI: We have deliberately focused on the problems of the market. But it seems the market is strongly revived: many new auctions appear, stir all ...

L. Sh : It can not all lie forever. Another thing is that if we lay before the minus sign, now lie with a plus sign.

conversation held Babulin Konstantin and Vladimir Bogdanov, AI