Interview with Ilya Goryanovym, the auction house "Znak"
ARTinvestment.RU   17 февраля 2012

Talking about the features of market orders, it differs from painting market, problems and prospects

The structure auction house "Znak» are just an auction, "Znak" (orders, medals, money securities) and the new "Znak-Art", specializing in the sale of paintings and decorative arts. Firm "Znak-Art" appeared last spring, held its first auction. A "Znak" exists since 2005, and February 18, this Saturday, will be held for 16 th trading account . Ilya Goryanov, principal owner of the auction house, not just an expert on your topic, but also the owner of a unique collection of ancient Russian securities. But today we will talk not about a hobby, and about the business: the peculiarities of the market orders, it differs from the market of art, problems and prospects .

ARTinvestment.RU : What is the highest price paid at auction for the lot" Znak »?

Ilya Goryanov : 40 million rubles for the chain of the Order of St. Andrew. It was in 2010, although the order before leaving for good price - at the level of 27-30 million. most expensive items that are sold in our country - it is up to the order in 1918. Trading later, Soviet, Order in Russia legally, as you recall, is prohibited.

AI : past your auction left a very pleasant impression. The hall was traded a lot of people, and even the appearance of those present it was clear that the public - is correct. It is noticeable that the industry is doing well. Why, in your opinion, is connected?

IG : Keep in mind that "Znak" - one of the two leading auction on orders and medals. We have a huge customer base for this segment - 400 active customers and among them there are very serious customers. Other companies similar to the profile you will not see this auction.

AI : and the price level, of course gives the impression of ...

IG : Collecting orders require a lot of money. In terms of cost, it is comparable to the collecting of pictures. Now the cost of serious Russian Order begins with the 10 million rubles. In this sort of thing is usually three to four customers, so the auction price rises. Trade rare (I emphasize: rare) Russian orders after 2008 are not soured, people stayed afloat and continue to buy.

AI: How often do repeat sales?

IG : It is very rare. Over the last five or six years, only one large collection, formed in recent years has been sold. For economic reasons. Other collectors are just accumulate. the trades often get things collected during the Soviet era, and a large number of Orders come from the West. prices in Russia are much higher than there. thrifty Europeans, who bought our decorations and badges in the 1980s, is now fixed income.

AI: A Who buys? dealers, investors, collectors?

IG : Collectors. Dealers ended in 2008. Before that dealers also bought for resale, but now it has stopped. Only the serious and very serious collectors. Simple Order or things are not in very good condition now, remain unclaimed, the trouble with them. They are very hard to sell, despite the fact that their prices compared to 2008 year fell two times. Demand is only now slowly beginning to recover. A rare luxury of the Order as a more expensive, and continue to go up regularly.

AI: What is your criterion for selection of things? Attractive price?

IG : Basic criteria for admission to trading are two: that the thing was genuine and that it was interesting, a rare . To cost it may be 30 thousand, and three million. Rarity can be found and over 30 thousand - just that it will be some rare zhetonchik or icon. We are trying to find things just for collectors, not dealers, so do not sell the through things such as common gold coins.

AI: And do you have a minimum price? What is the most valued thing in our catalog available?

IG : Conditionally 3000 rubles and less simply not profitable. such things, we introduce the catalog a little - about 5 percent.

AI: That is entertainment purchases are possible?

IG : Yes, we have one on the back cover catalog published charter - that evidence of a pig. Previously bred pigs in the USSR was a special account and each had its own charter. Beautiful, large, with an image and full description of the characteristics of a pig. Clearly, this is a funny subject. But we are sometimes put lots for a change - something interesting after all.

AI: That is, first considers the tastes of collectors?

IG : More precisely, we build a auction based on their collective and interests. For example, there are four collectors who collect rare copper coins. So, before you take the coin up for auction, I calculate for yourself, can it have someone buy? If not, I just do not take it. With many major collectors, I trust, I know who that is and who does not suffice. Auction is formed with an eye to specific customers, so we have such a high percentage of sales.

AI: Do you have a feeling that the auctions as a way of replacing agent trade and other forms?

IG : Yes, I'm talking about this for a long time. This is happening all over the world. auction mechanism is transparent and allows to obtain the maximum profit. If you have sold something on the sly, then for all will worm of doubt - what if a bad bargain? And if put to a normal auction, where bidders agree more, the market price is achieved. Auctions leaves no doubt about it. In contrast to the dealers we openly take a 10 percent commission or more have no right to take. Even if something goes 20 million, we will take only two. People are attracted by this transparency and competitiveness.

AI: On the other hand, an auction is often three times a year, and the gallery is open every day ...

IG : I agree, this is one of the things that we played in the negative. On the other hand, the auction - this is a chance, it gives an understanding of what you are buying a rarity. And when a thing lies on the counter every day, to her and other related.

AI: Postauktsionnye sales have you practiced?

IG : Yes, as everywhere else. We do not advertise it, but there is a category of people who are nice to come after the auction and try to buy unsold cheaper. They get pleasure from it: I like the opportunity to buy something at a starting price so even without the payment of commission percent. I do not like such tricks, but it should work with any clients.

AI: On your last auction was struck by the struggle for the icons of the Supreme Soviets of the republics (Tajikistan, etc.). It is always the case?

IG : Always. This trend of nostalgia for the Soviet era. No, not bureaucrats in buying a gift, it takes collectors for their collections. Until 2008, prices were higher, and now there are many collectors in the segment of the parliamentary icon. Among our clients there are about ten (up to 2008 there were three of the force). And for this segment of ten people - a lot. average price of the subject - about 30 thousand rubles. Rarest mark is worth about 600,000. But the bulk sale ranging from 30 to 150 000, so that such collecting can afford not only to the oligarchs.

AI: How do you make a check for authenticity?

IG : My partners and I, that is, the founders of the auction, the experts themselves. I am a certified expert Rosokhrankultura in one area of ​​my partners - in other areas. It is very rare, but mistakes do happen. With the upcoming auction, we removed one item, not at first understood, and then prompted people in the know. In his book, glue a ribbon with the inscription, "Taken." But in general we have since 2005 had only two returning. One time we recognized that a mistake. On another occasion, a customer made a mistake - we knew that the real thing, and then have it re-examination of positive, even from an expert. But still the money was returned to the client and kept a good relationship with him.

AI: «Znak" gives a rare seven-year guarantee for our market. How disputes are resolved in practice?

IG : Formally, the person to return to bring the conclusion of the eligible organization. But in reality, everything is decided on a human level. In some cases we are able to meet without papers.

AI: In our experience, long-term guarantees in themselves mean nothing. crucial role played by trust in us.

I. G. : To this I'll tell you that we - the only company in Russia, which operates the official awards Christie's expert Sergey Patrikeev - the world's top expert on Russian awards. unique, with whom he has worked in Russia, - is with us. His word is worth more than any examination. So we have a good reputation.

AI: Museums you buy?

IG : One time in history. They just can not buy at auction, only in postauktsionnoy sale. there strict rules, the rules of the procurement committee, consideration sometimes takes six months. This is a very long process. Therefore, antiquarians do not like to sell to museums.

AI: The global rise in gold prices affect the value of your items?

IG : This may be a coin, but we do not do such things. There Nikolaev gold fives and tens, which have little or no collector component and their value is determined by weight. We do not expose. In our gold items the cost of the gold is almost irrelevant.

AI: In the market of painting a couple of years ago, an (then went to nothing) the trend of substitution: due to the lack of quality of Russian paintings were bought by the level of comparable European, and much cheaper. market orders there is a similar trend?

IG : We have - the ones who introduced the section "Foreign awards and medals." He's introduced two years ago. But people are turning to it reluctantly. Matching the beauty of the Order, with gold, and here and there, - with Russian Order will cost $ 5,000, and European (even if he made at a higher level of jewelry) will cost $ 500.

In the West, the prices are quite different. It is the most unique thing - Order of the Elephant, which was given only to crowned heads, - is worth about 200,000 euros. Russian Order of this order will cost $ 2 million. Only Order of the Elephant with us - go and sell, and the Russian Order to sell is much easier.

AI: The audience of your age or younger collectors?

IG : Skeleton - men from the forty to fifty. But come and a lot of young people, mostly businessmen.

AI: What attracts faleristics new people? With pictures - clear: buying for investment and social status ...

IG : Order of the least prestigious form of collectibles. hang on the wall of a collection of awards and Makovsky, so the order can, and will be more prestigious. This is a good man's hobby. It is of the order. Because the coin - it is hard on the fan. And Order - a very prestigious. They are big, beautiful, in enamels, they were made famous jewelers. Arms, the Order, the picture - it is, in my opinion, the three most prestigious form of male collectors.

AI: Market orders expanded?

and . G. : We have a stable. We try to put on the auction of 400 lots. With regard to the prospects of the market collectibles I am very optimistic. Autumn Auction was good and gave many reasons for optimism . Will be growth in demand, there will be more buyers. Ability to work with antique weapons, we study, but it is still not clear. People who are engaged from time to time there are problems with licensing authorities. Before starting this business, you need to clarify all these issues. Legislative situation in this area is still not clear.

AI: How do you evaluate the first experience with the pictures?

IG : By the forecasts for art auction, I'm more cautious. The market is not the best painting. Nevertheless, the first auction, we sold 20 percent in the hall, and another 10 percent in sales mode postauktsionnyh. you say - okay? But orders for auction I'm used to 70 percent sales. Although, when I complain that I have sold 30 per cent, in response to hearing "You're a lucky man!" In any case, we work hard to second auction for the painting and the PDI was better.

AI: Very different way of market orders and painting?

IG : It is different approach. Collectors decorations fill the gaps. There is a mandatory list, which the collector should have the right to compile the collection. For example, a collector must have a complete set of the Order of Alexander Nevsky, a set of Order of St. Andrew. This niche, which are filled with the purchase of "bypass list". In painting no lists do not exist, because every subject - is unique. collector can not seek to obtain all Makovsky. Of course, I exaggerate, but the choice is very wide and there is no obligation. In faleristics and numismatics, as a rule, collecting involves the purchase of "mandatory" items. And the more these things are, the better collection. And in the arts - all the taste, there is no binding principle.

AI: How big is our "black market" awards of the USSR?

IG : It's no secret that he is huge. It turns a lot of millions of dollars. Criminal liability is provided only for the sale of . But not for possession. If a person at home is a collection of Soviet medals, there is nothing to show he can not. We, as a legal firm, stand aside from this, and the market exists. law on the legalization of trade orders was applied repeatedly to the Duma, but stop, probably for political reasons. It will take time.

AI: Tell me about my own experience of collecting.

IG : I do not collect the Order. I collect old paper money, and I have the best in the world collection of old Russian securities . I love to be in collecting the first. In painting, or orders it is impossible, because it requires huge money. Himself childhood like the Impressionists, would love to collect them, but there is no money. And to be the best in the securities and collecting old money I can.

AI: How long have you spent on "promotion" auction?

IG : year and a half. first two auctions were so-so, and then it went. I am well aware that market, and worked for private dealer, we had accumulated customer base. We just moved from the stage of gray in a completely white.

AI: How the Internet is firmly entered into your life?

IG : In 2005 we made a first continuous online auction, but only after a year - intramural, prestigious auction . That is, the Internet was going to come. But for me, Internet access cost - more advertising, a means to expand its customer base, meet new people, involve them in a full-time auction. profits it does not give. Big strong sales through the Internet, we do not pass. People do not trust the Internet enough. In the West - as they want. We - no. Introducing inexpensive to purchase, and then invite the person to a large auction. matter of mutual guarantees. Auction to protect themselves from unscrupulous buyers, and of the buyer - from unfair trade. This is an issue guarantees delivery of money, delivery of items. expensive antiques for sale over the Internet in our country is not yet possible.

Changes are possible only in the distant future. It's like imagine, when the world refuses to cash and fully switch to the card. once, maybe it will be. Maybe in ten years. We have mastered the Internet is not all. And then there's something to buy ...